DetectingWales.com

Hi all,
        Just woundering if any of you have any Bristol mint hammereds for sale or swop? or any nice ones you would just like to show :)

Nice ones - I've wanted to get an Ed IV Bristol Mint groat for some time, but being 'not London / York' always seem to go for a bit more than I wanted to pay. I don't have any I want to get rid of just yet :)

Is it just Bristol hammereds of that period, or do you go as far as the civil war pieces too?

Hi probono, what I want to do is focas on collecting a collection of Ed iv Bristol groats really, im willing to trade in my collection of other hammered coins including Charles i halfcrowns, henry viii groat and quite a few other types, but any Bristol really if the grade is good.
A friend of mine has a huge collection of Bristol mint hammered coins including a Matilda penny very very rare, may be just a small hand full kown, it took him 50 year to get that coin in his collection.
   

I'm collecting more than detecting lately, so if anyone has any Bristols  they would like to show/sale please get in touch ;)

Chef you must have a Edward IV Bristol half penny/penny somewhere in your collection?

Hi Dale,

Thought you might like to see this one from 2011, well its neither Edward IV nor in good nick, but what I like about it is the misspelling of BRISTOLLIE. Don't get to see BRISTOLLIO very often, just a pity its in such bad shape.

Thanks for posting Techony, and well spotted its clearly a o on the end very unusual I will look more in to that coin, after tomorrows rally, I will also see if my mate has a example....... Thanks for posting ;)

hi dale i got 5 eddie 1st pennys only one is bristol mint found last year in somerton
the coin is in very good condition i will put a pic up later tonite

il look forward to seeing it :)

here it is dale looks much better in the hand  ;)

pics would help  ::)

Thanks for posting Colin, as you said its in good condition, id like to find my own Bristol hammered to add to my collection, BUT they are rare finds in Bristol ???

Also iv added a photo of the newest member to my collection, shame it was a buy not a find.......  note the star on breast, there is so many different types ;) 

Nice - the way the reverse legend is laid out is quite interesting too!

if you wanted to swap or something dale let me know  ;)

here's my one and only bristol mint hammered. found in october this year.

edward 1st

like mine al with the crosses coming through on head side I think they call it ghosting  ;)

hadn't really thought about it until i read your comment Colin, but now that you mention it, it means  i got to go and read up all about it.  ;D

Your spot on Colin it is called ghosting and trying to find a high grade example with out it is very hard !!
Alan that is a very nice grade penny with strong legends, a unclipped flan, with slight ghosting as Colin pointed out, but its still a very nice Bristol penny...... Thanks for posting your coins lads  ;) ;)

il have a new Bristol arriving tomorrow brought last night, another Henry VIII groat WS mint mark, but a lot better grade than last weeks groat I posted........ will post pic when it. arrives. 

The Henry VIII groat arrived today, what im very pleased with, I tried to take the best photo I can using the poor light iv got :-\

Peter (doc) or probono if you see this post can you give me your thoughts on grade, as its the posthumous issues, and they are usually very poor coins... Thanks 

Well, grading is quite a subjective thing.

When I started collecting coins, the dealer I bought from (Dave Ruskin) said that to properly grade a coin you have to see how nice the flan is, how well struck it is, etc, etc - and it doesn't really matter what the general issue is like - you are correct that it is well struck for its issue, but that wouldn't affect the true grade (it just means that for coins of this type the better grades are that much more expensive - check the various values for tin coins for instance)

So - It's got a good portrait, but it isn't super sharp - the legend is mostly clear, but there are flat areas of striking and there is some edge loss. On the reverse again mostly well struck, but there are areas of weakness and some corrosion.

Spink (who I find at times very cautious in grading) would probably say GF+ (maybe even nVF), whilst mentioning the problems, whereas eBay would probably say EF and someone like CNG might say VF(ish) - although maybe mentioning some of the porosity and saying that it was possible 'as struck' except for the edge nibbling.

Hope that provides some insight into how I might possible approach grading something. All I can say is that most things are over-graded and I thought I knew what uncirculated was until I actually got to see proper uncirculated coins - and that then adjusted my perception of the other grades.

my first ever hammered dale was edward 1st penny on a farm just 2 miles from my house and this has the crosses coming through on the bust  ;)

You got some good points there probono, as you say the issue should not make a difference in grading but it always does for the debased coins, there is a lot to take into account, the quality of metal, its easily chipped, poor for striking, and as you say they corrode a lot easier ....... its far from the fine silver coinage, where VF plus groats are easily obtained :)

Thanks for your reply ;) 

heres mine

(http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss63/jayhay69/henry2_zps0d7f96b2.jpg) (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/jayhay69/media/henry2_zps0d7f96b2.jpg.html)
(http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss63/jayhay69/henry5_zps90c31412.jpg) (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/jayhay69/media/henry5_zps90c31412.jpg.html)

Ture - VF groats for the fine silver are easy to obtain, so their relatives values are lower.

I always remember someone telling me a story about an old lady who took a worn Geo III penny to the museum to have it valued. When told it was worth very little because of it's condition she replied ' we'll you'd look like that if you were that old'.... I suppose it's as my mentor said 'you can't call a coin VF if there's bit's missing, only that there are 'VF details' (should point out that I wouldn't be complaining if I had bought the groat you had :) ).

Thought you might like to see this beauty found at the D.W rally in Penmark 2011, Edward 1 Bristol mint Class 3g, cheers Chris

lovely coin willow tree i think you mean penmark
 ;)

What a great detecting find willow tree !! that penny is as good as any in my collection, if not better ;)

(should point out that I wouldn't be complaining if I had bought the groat you had :) ).

[/quote]

Probono the price I got this coin for was a absolute give away, off Ebay, buy now or make offer, I never wasted anytime making offers  ;)

I went to a coin fair today and added a few more local coins to the collection,
Iv did pretty well lately with getting new coins most being gap fillers, but a few better grade ones.
The Henry III penny is the 2nd rarest one, moneyer Henri, a nice grade with a possible striking crack.

The square coin is a Bristol farthing, I think is dated to about 1551, I now need one more to complete the collection, with the very rare left sailing ship.

The last being a Dobunni Celtic unit (silver base) I haven't looked up the type yet, its not the best shot, but its has some nice detail ;)

Cracking coins  :)

That Bristol Farthing is very nice. Nice coins.  8) 8)

Cheers :), its took me a while to get that type of square farthing, and one has just popped up on eBay the same day ??? :).

Here's my Bristol token i thought I'd share up found by myself awhile ago. There's not much detail on the 1side but still made my day when he popped out  ;)

very nice find mate

Cheers for showing hoover, was it found in or near Bristol?

black rock area pal  ;)

So I guess it proberly hung around a workers neck to get back and fourth across on the ferry

nice one hoover, i found a few roman up there too

It done a little travelling then, iv only had the copper ones ;)

Dale - I thought I would show you my recent purchse of a Bristol Groat - it was a bit dirtier than this when I got it, but it's not bad now :) - one day I might even buy a Coventry groat......

It's the standard 'VILLA B RISTOW' type mm crown - I like the fact that the crown on the reverse doesn't really have enough room and is partly covered by the cross....the reverse is really much better than the shaky, out of focus camera shot I managed from my phone :)

Sorry, I've only got London, Canterbury and York mint hammered coins :(

I'm sure you will get other mints as time goes on - the first hammered I bought was an Edward I, London Mint penny, for £10 - whilst hammered coins are my 'second collection' I'm still a little reminded of the 'from tiny acorns mighty oaks grow'. Sometimes I imagine the holidays I could go on if I didn't spend all that money on coins....... :D

But - coins I find come much higher up on the scale than pretty much anything I have bought.

Nice coin Roland thanks for showing, I can see the reverse is better than photo shows, iv got a nice mm crown both sides but mines spelt ....BRISTOLL.... I have a ....BRISTOW.... but its a mule mm crown, rose I think with out looking.

Have you noticed the trefoil after VIL on yours, I don't think iv seen that die before ;)

hi dale i've got a nice bristol token like the one shown and also a bristol groat in good nick out of the soil.as soon as i get 5 mins i'll download it and show you.

No - I hadn't seen that trefoil (or clocked it as different) - it's only the second Bristol groat I've had, and the first was awful (must have it in the house somewhere, but where?) - I did see a BRISTOLL type on ebay but they want 120 for it.... and it's not that nice. Perhaps someone should write a 'Bristol Groats of Edward IV' monogram for the BNS or RNS :)

There's a few on eBay mm crown and yours is different and better!
Take a look at the Henry VIII Bristol groat listed its a London obverse die, rarer that the normal type but priced the same in Spink? id go for it if the condition was better ;)

Firstly I've got to admit to total ignorance here on types and classes as I really can't get my head around coin collecting, dates for me are the important bit so how can you have a Bristol reverse with a London obverse? surely one is wrongly listed are there any theories on these?

hammered id defo a science chef :D

That Henry is quite interesting - I'm sure it could be improved a little, but most of the problems seem to be the poor strike!

Many of the dies were made in London and then sent out to the various provincial mints....

Ahhh so the reverse on that groat could have actually been cut and used in London before being sent to Bristol making it in reality a London groat?

sorry Geoff I think it was more the tower bust was used on Bristol groats, not the Tower die being used at Bristol as iv seen Tower Bust 2 on a Bristol groat with a rosette at the end of legend so the die was cut for Bristol.
A friend has got a Ed IV Bristol groat B on breast with a London reverse ??? But what a coin to add to the collection!

Take a look at this one.....................

Edward VI Shilling, Bristol mint, 1549, m.m. TC monogram (over G on obv.), London obverse die with tall narrow bust, rev. Bristol die. rosette before and after date



 

Isn't that just wishful thinking though as if one die was made for London and the other for Bristol then there is only a 50-50 chance of either and if both were cut in London then the balance surely tips in London's favour if only as a test coin for the die?

hi dale here you go mate finally got round to photos.both were found just outside of hereford.

Very nice nonker, thanks for showing, do you still own it?

hi dale
  yes i do still own it,i can manage to part with some  artefacts but i always hang onto the coins.

Thanks for getting back to me, if you ever want to sale it I will be interested and give you a fair price ;)

Geoff I know where your coming from, but the Henry VIII Tower Bust 2 is classed as a Bristol coin, under William Sharington mint master at the time.
As for the ED VI Bristol obvs, London revs your spot on a test coin, I spoke to a friend about it today, he also has a ED VI London obvs, Bristol revs he showed the coin to Spink they wanted to buy it but he chose not to sale, they said its a unique coin there is no others recorded, he also confirmed Roland's point ;) 

Oh yes I can see how it's still a Bristol coin but was it actually physically struck in London if not then how do they rationalise the Tower obverse die being in Bristol?
I would of thought that the London connection with both dies would lead to that conclusion and make the coin even more exciting as possibly the first time ever that the Bristol die was used......It works for me anyway ;D

if i ever do want to sell i would surely let it go to you,having such a local interest.

It was struck in Bristol, but the reason the tower bust was used I don't know, I asked the question?

Thanks Nonker ;)

LOL but how do they know that it was struck in Bristol that's my point?

I could do with a time machine right now lol :D Records everything being struck at the mint is recorded, it was William Sharington at the time but he was found to be fiddling the books anyway, so even he could of been in on it ;D ;)

Why don't you just ask Doug, as he was probably around when the coins were first struck ;D ;D ;D

I was looking at iding some Edward I pennies yesterday (one of which is a Bristol class 2b btw) and reading about the centralisation of mint production.

Quite often you will see comments like 'York mint, local dies' - i.e the majority of the coins had the dies made in London and then sent to the local mint centres for striking - it allows for the authorities to have better control of quality and design than say in Henry II's time. Of course there are privy and other marks (often beside the actual mint name) that indicate who was 'in charge' of striking these coins - you would still need to be able to look at what was being produced.

In these circumstances, it's quite easy to see how a mistake was made where a specifically London obverse might be sent out in error to a local mint, and it would take some time for someone to notice and rectify the mistake (by sending out the correct die).

There's also comments that the die were stored in a loose-box arrangement - so you would have a number of obverse and reverse die which you would pick out of a box and pair up, hence mules and different obverse and reverse die combinations.

As Dale said there are also lots of records (somewhere) about production - again yesterday I was reading that some 50,000 pounds of silver Irish pennies were struck in the late 1200's - so from that you can work out that some 12 million were struck - it might even be possible to try and work out a survival rate for these (1 in a thousand would mean there are 12,000 available for collectors for instance).

Thanks Roland and Dale I've just been doing some reading up and I notice that the Henry VIII isn't "that"unusual so my apologies for as I said my lack of knowledge here as I assumed it was in the same class as the Edward VI, I also read that Bristol was at this time the only mint other than the Tower to have its own engraver but as you say Dale that William Sharington was a "wrong un"  ;D amazingly for the time he not only kept his head after being involved with the Seymour plot but went on to bigger and better things........Who says crime doesn't pay?lol

You right Geoff the Henry VIII isn't that unusual, you will see about 50 WS monograms to 1-3 TC they're rarer ;)
One thing I did find out today from my mate who also just found out is, when the Bristol mint closed down (not sure of the date iv just ordered the books) the workers were employed by the London mint, and the dyes were also taken there, it said something about the striking of Bristol and London city mules, il up date the post next week when they arrive.

I added this penny to the collection this week, its been a hard one to get in any condition iv only seen one other for sale but its a little over priced for the condition its in, this one was in a job lot of 5 and not listed as a Bristol, its a little weak on the obverse but its very debased silver ;)

It closed in March 1550 I only know that from this paper which I thought was quite interesting in it's intrique ;)
http://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital%20BNJ/pdfs/1981_BNJ_51_7.pdf (http://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital%20BNJ/pdfs/1981_BNJ_51_7.pdf)

Cheers for the link Geoff I haven't come across that one ;)

Roland I bought 3 new books about the Bristol Mint there excellent!! It says for the Thomas Chamberlain coinage of 1549, ninety-six-dozen coining irons were bought :o from the Tower mint for seven shillings per dozen.

That's quite a stack of coining irons! - I wonder how long it took for them to get made?

What are the books on the Bristol mint called?

On a separate note I fairly recently acquired a class 2 Bristol farthing - I'll post some images when I've found it :)

Cheers Roland ;)

The books are called The Bristol Mint by L.V. Grinsell 1962.....1972....1986 all for £11.50 inc postage very cheep ://www.galata.co.uk they have a few more copies about £2.50 for both ;) The early square Bristol farthing I posted awhile back I learnt there was 86,400 struck :o so there not that rare lol

Here's the new one :)

Dale would these have been blanks as Bristol had its own engraver? 7d each sound quite cheap given that a skilled labourer could earn 1/- a day.

Il look into it more Geoff, im not sure if Chamberlain had his own engraver its not mentioned?

I've just looked at dates and there must have been a lot of unused irons about as Chamberlayne took over in December 1548 and the last coins were struck in October 1549 so just 10 months and the closure was planned back in June 1548 4 months before he started......ummm more skulduggery ;D

Jumping between two books here it says 1549 the coining irons were bought.............

Chamberlain accounts show that between 1 January 1549 and the closure of the mint on 31October 1549, 5,978 lb of silver (4 oz. fine was struck in groats, half groats, pence and half pence, and 306 lb of silver (6 oz. fine) was struck in shillings in May and June that year. In addition testoons  to the weight of 14,115 lb were converted into silver coins of denominations from groats down words.

Its all very tight with the dates so it looks like the coining irons were bought cut ;)

I have worked in the Tower London mint! Really.

The part of the Tower of London that used to be the mint has for many years been accommodation for the beefeaters that stay in the tower. In the mid 1980s the building was completely gutted to just a shell and then internally rebuilt with new floors, walls, ect. I worked in there on and off for about 3 months doing all the plumbing and heating.
The sad bit is that I was not detecting or knew nothing about coins at the time. And also, at the time I was working there, I did not realise that the part I was working in was the old mint. I found out a few years later.  :'(

Oops. I should not have posted that.
 We had to sign the official secrets act before we could work in there.
Oh dear now Im in trouble lol.

Remove it mate

They'll be sharpening the axe now ready to welcome you back :D

OFF WITH HIS HEAD :-\ :D

Im already off me head  ;D

This Bristol Mint topic has been going on for two years now and so I thought it time to place on record my Bristol coin found on a Cardiff Scan Club rally five years ago. It is a Harold 1 penny 1036 - 1038 AD by moneyer Saewine. Only seven other coins exist of the Bristol mint and by Saewine and all reside in Scandinavian museums. Whilst the reverse, a ' jewelled cross ' design is known, the obverse depicting the kings head can not be matched  with any other coin, making mine unique.
The coin has been authenticated and recorded by Edward Beasley of the Museum of Wales.

The only Bristol mint coin I have is Edward 1st penny class 3g.

Let's have some pictures then :)

I know the topic has been going a long time - it's partly my fault for resurecting it recently, but I'm finding it an interesting thread - for sharing knowledge, and learning about the Bristol mint - (it would be nice to have a thread on the Cardiff mint, but it would be pretty quiet :) ) - and Dale's obvious enthusiasm for things numismatic Bristolian is quite infectious :D

Edward 1st. Class 3g. Bristol mint.

Geoff iv found out Giles Evenet (graver of the irons Bristol) went on to work for Thomas Chamberlain in 1549 he also designed the TC monogram like he did the WS for Sharington.
Evenet's Bristol dies are recognizable by the pellets (I see a pellet :D) beneath the shield of the groats ;)

That's a nice clear coin - and I can see the pellet too :)

I have a william iii shilling. A re issue of coinage by willliam opened several
 Batch mints one in bristol were these extra mints then shutdown after a short period
why were they called batch mints ?
 

Ta ;) im pleased with it Roland it was last weeks buy.

Yeah Bristol was shut down after a few years, the 5 provincial mints was only open to relieve the pressure of the London mint.
Im not sure why they called them batch mints? I haven't heard of that before sorry :)

No it's a new name to me too? unless they had a set amount of coins to make and that would be it? Where did you read that term WFA?

My mistake branch mints not batch, william iii section new spinks book.
Thats what happens when you are sneaking a read in works time. Must take more care with my work nahh more research sorry  guys